After reading the two Hawthorne stories closely, write a post that is an analytical reaction to the two texts. Consider Romantic qualities: symbolism, characterization, the texts as allegories, the concept of sin, etc...
Be sure you include and discuss at least one quote in your response. You may find an interesting connection between an aspect of the stories or you can look at them separately.
Feel free to respond to and build off of your peers' ideas!
Remember to sign your name at the end- first name and last initial.
"The Minister's Black Veil" accurately portrays Hawthorne's Gothic and symbolic writing style. Hawthorne uses the black veil in the story to show his attitudes towards pride and how he treats it as evil. Hooper seems to wear the veil as a way of detaching himself from the rest of the world possibly in a way to conserve any pride he may feel sinful of. He attempts to use the veil to hide his sin which causes those around him to become restless because they are unaware of why exactly he wears it. They do however begin to become more aware of their own sin through Hooper's veil. This is especially prominent when Hooper is about to die and he tells the people around that they all wear black veils. What I believe he is saying with these lines is that everyone sins and people not only hide their sins, but hide the very fact that they are hiding sins. This is reflective of one of Hawthorne's themes where he addresses a character's problem of guilt.
ReplyDeleteJack McDonald
Wow! Incredible insight, Sir.
DeleteAgreed! Your analysis of the text is comparable to a Harvard graduate! The excellnce of your writing simply baffles.
DeleteBrian Carens
ReplyDeleteIn the "Birthmark" all the protagonist is trying to do is make his beautiful Georgiana wife perfect. He thinks that the birthmark is a defect and makes his wife impure and ugly when it really was a gift that made her special and different from everyone else. It was because of this birthmark he fell in love in the 1st place.
Another analysis I have about the Birthmark is symbolism. In the story the narator says that every living thing is flawed in one way or another. Whether you are the Queen of England, Ms Universe or some homeless man who flunked out of middle school we are all flawed in our own special ways. And because of these flaws we each are different and have our own lives to live. We are mortal humans and what we think of each other isn't nearly as important as what our God thinks of us. We arent perfect so why judge others who arent perfect either. "It may be the stain goes as deep as life itself." this quote makes me think about how we are humans and that we all must die and how we our life on earth isnt as important and perfect as life in the next life, heaven. The quote also is talking about the imperfections of man in what i said before saying that all living things have birthmarks in our own way. No man is perfect. I also like this quote "Its shape bore not a little similarity to the human hand." this made me think of the hand of God touching us all giving us special gifts to represent each one of us. God gave us all gifts and this birthmark is Georginanas one.
Brian Carens
good insight on the protagonist's view of the wife's birthmark!
DeleteTroy T
In "The Birthmark", Alymer's ability to create beautiful and successful scientific marvels contrasts the power that nature will always have over science, and disrupting that balance results in consequence, therefore Georgiana's death. "Then a hoarse, chuckling laugh was heard again! Thus ever does the gross fatality of earth exult in its invariable triumph over the immortal essence which, in this dim sphere of half development, demands the completeness of a higher state",This quotes effectively reiterates the statement that nature will always best science, and Hawthorne's use of the Earth, the essence of all things nature, laughing over the impurity of Alymer's potion is a clever addition.
ReplyDeletethe actual significance of the birthmark is to represent Georgiana's mortality, as the narrator states that natural flaws are apart of every being, the one thing keeping everyone human and not perfect.
In Hawthorne's short story "The Birthmark", he symbolizes life and death with everyday objects. Aylmer marries a beautiful woman named Georgina who is perfect in every way except for one imperfection on her left cheek. She has a birthmark that Alymer wants to get rid of and she agrees saying that she would risk her life in order to get rid of it. (FORESHADOWING!) Georgina drinks a potion and she starts to weaken and die.
ReplyDeleteThe birthmark can be a symbol for death because it shows how no one is perfect and how death is inevitable. Hawthorne says that imperfection is part of every day life that can not be rid of. "'Do not repent that with so high and pure a feeling, you have rejected the best the earth could offer. Aylmer, dearest Aylmer, I am dying!'" In Hawthorne's story it states that as one good thing comes to an end, so does something even greater.
Marissa H
In "The Birthmark", Alymer is first put off as a great scientist who has made many great accomplishments but as you keep reading he is really just a wannabe scientist. He is very selfish because he wants to change his wife to be more beautiful to him. The language that Hawthorne uses is ver discriptive when he is talking about Georgina's birthmark. The deep description of the birthmark shows to me that the birthmark is a symbol for life. Alymere wants to remove the birthmark but whe he does so his wife is killed. The mark shows that not one person is perfect, there is always something that can be changed but is not supposed to be. For Georgina the birthmark is her symbol of life and when taken away she died. everyone is meant to have an imperfection.
ReplyDeleteAmy B
In both of Hawthorne's stories, he uses symbolism:
ReplyDeleteIn "The Birthmark",one example of symbolism is the hand. When the flower Aylmer gives Georgiana dies, a reflection of her in a plate is in the shape of a hand. Aylmer has a dream that he removes Georgiana's birthmark and reaches down with and removes her heart with his hand. Georgiana's birthmark itself is in the shape of a hand.
"With her whole spirit she prayed that, for a single moment, she might satisfy his highest and deepest conception. Longer than one moment she well knew it could not be; for his spirit was ever on the march, ever ascending . . . something that was beyond the scope of the instant before."
This quote is from Georgiana's perspective. She is realizing that even if she was perfect, she would not satisfy Aylmer for more than a moment. Georgiana's birthmark itself is symbolic of inperfection; it is a reminder to Aylmer that even his "perfect" wife will never be perfect, to his standards.
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In "The Minister's Black Veil", the veil itself is a symbol. Hooper's veil, the townspeople speculate, is because of some sin that he has committed. The veil is a reminder to the people of the sins they may have committed themselves but are unwilling to admit. The color of the veil (black) is representative of the darkness that the Puritans believed to exist in every person. The veil serves as a symbol for the Puritan's obsession with sin and atonement, and their quest for heaven.
Way to put it out there girrrl!!!!!!!!!
DeleteIn "The Birthmark", Alymer's mission to remove Georgiana's birthmark from her face ended with fatal consequences rather than success. Throughout the story, the symbolic meaning of Georgiana's birthmark was that it represented true beauty,and how people are beautiful just the way they are. Hawthorne's use of symbolism and imagery in the story captivates the reader teaching them that changing who you really are could be consequential physically and emotionally. Hawthorne does a great job of continuing this symbol throught the story teaching a great theme of life.
ReplyDelete~Kate Sears
"The Minister's Black Veil" exploits Nathaniel Hawthorne's influence of classical romance through one of the six main elements- 'hidden and unmistaken identity.' This hidden identity is revealed through Reverend Hooper's black veil, which he refuses to take off as he claims it is a sign of his sorrows. As he lay in his death bed, he goes on to proclaim to Reverend Clark: "Then deem me a monster, for the symbol beneath which I have lived, and die! I look around me, and, lo! on every visage a Black Veil!" The symbol beneath which he has lived -- the black veil -- has given him the identity of a monster to society, only supporting Hawthorne's grotesque writing style and theme of individual verses society. "The Minister's Black Veil" contains many of the elements of the American Romanticism literary movement, a movement that explored individual conflict and was absorbed in the secrets of the human heart and soul. It seems ironic that the minister, seemingly the most loyal to the church in his town, feels it necessary to display his secret sins through the use of his veil.
ReplyDeleteCrystal Molloy
Monsters are SCARY!!!!!!!!
DeleteIn Hawthorne's "The Minister's Black Veil", Mr. Hooper, a clergyman, begins to wear a black veil, teaching everyone an important lesson about hidden guilt of sin; the people, seeing him wear the veil, become aware of their own. Hawthorne's message is that everyone is capable of sin: even the kindly Mr. Hooper, who as a member of the church, represents goodness, is capable of being infected by sin, and the guilt that comes with it. Realising this important lesson at the end, the people learn to forgive, and symbolically, leave the veil on Hooper as well.
ReplyDeleteGood insight about how sin comes with guilt, and that everyone- even the good, are capable of being infected by it.
Delete-Crystal M
In Hawthorne's story of "The Birthmark", the character of Georgiana has a but one flaw. She has a birthmark on her right cheek. In the story, Hawthorne uses Georgiana to in contrast with her husband, Aylmer, a scientist. Aylmer tries to rid Georgiana of this single flaw that she has so that she can be perfect. As he does, he kills her, and looses exactly what he is trying to create. Hawthorne uses this symbol in order to show his belief that no one can be truly perfect, and that everyone has their own flaws.
DeleteHawthorn carries out a similar theme in "The Birthmark". Just like Mr. Hooper, as you stated was symbolic of goodness yet was capable of sin, Georgiana is described as the epitome of beauty yet she has one flaw: a birthmark on her face. These flaws are symbolic of the inherent imperfection of human nature. In "The Birthmark", Hawthorn expands upon this idea when Alymer tries to achieve perfection by removing Georgiana's birthmark. The problem with this, as Paige points out, is that he is bordering upon hubris as he is trying to create perfection, something no human can obtain. These actions in a very Greek like fashion led to his downfall (interestingly, the Greek myth of Pygmalion is mentioned in the story and there are many parallels between the characters and themes of the two stories).
DeleteHawthorne illustrates that Aylmer’s desire to make his wife perfect is doomed because perfection, Hawthorne suggests, is heaven's domain and can’t be found on earth. Georgina, Aylmer's wife, drinks Aylmer's potion to rid her skin of her only imperfection: the birthmark. Aylmer is fixated on this birthmark because as a scientist he strives for the power of God/Nature to create perfection. Hawthorne describes Aylmer's thoughts on his accomplishments as "his brightest diamonds were the merest pebbles, and felt to be so by himself, in comparison with the inestimable gems which lay hidden beyond his reach" (638). Hawthorne's comparison of diamonds to pebbles compares Heaven's powers to the power of the mortal man. Hawthorne fully illustrates that man cannot create perfection when Georgina dies. Georgina dies shortly after achieving perfection when the potion rids her white skin of the birthmark. Georgina's death symbolizes that perfection cannot exist on Earth but only in heaven.
ReplyDeletePaige C
I like your reasoning that perfection can only be found in heaven. It makes me think of the antiquarianism aspect of Romanticism because of its similarity to mythology, with the Gods punishing man for trying to do something that was only meant for the Gods.
DeleteChloe L
In both stories, "The Birthmark" and "The Minister's Black Veil" the characters present something that is considered unusual. In "The Birthmark" Georgiana chooses to keep her birthmark, telling her "shocked" husband that it has been called a charm. She is hurt by his suggestion to remove it, but she is firm in her decision to keep it. It was put there, making her stand out from the crowd. Even though she does not know if it is something special or not, she would not run the risk of losing it if it were not at the suggestion of her trusted husband. Similarly, the minister will not remove the black veil, even for his love Elizabeth. I think the interesting part of these stories is in that the love interests of both of these characters is against the marks, but not so much that they can leave their loves. They, along with the rest of society, see the marks as either imperfection or a sign of sin and guilt. Aylmer convinces Georgiana to remove the mark, and she dies because of these efforts. In both of the stories, life without the marks did not exist, and just as either character was about to lose their mark, they moved into death and whatever they believed to come afterwards.
ReplyDeleteChloe L
beautiful insight ... I think that Hawthorne really tried to convey the message of love and what love actually means in both of these stories. If you love someone, you should accept them for who they are, but Hawthorne does a great job of portraying the "dark side of the moon," the side of love that isnt always necessarily talked about.
Delete~Shayna S
In his biography, it is stated that Hawthorne's "...remedy is in nature and is in the sweetness of a world freed not from sin, but from the corrosive sense of guilt" (592). Hawthorne's philosophy is carried over into "The MInister's Black Veil," which depicts the trials and tribulations of being open and honest with oneself. As the council visits with Mr.Hooper, they realize that the veil is "...the symbol of a fearful secret between him and them"(621). The realization that the black veil is more than just a personal clothing choice or a sign of mourning sends the town into an even bigger uproar, and Elizabeth visits him to understand what exactly is the true meaning of the black veil. When questioned by her, Mr.Hooper responds " "There is an hour to come,' said he, 'when all of us shall cast aside our veils. Take it not amiss, beloved friend, if I wear this piece of crape till then"(622). This quote shows that Mr.Hooper is seeing into the depths of the human soul, and realizing that everyone has guilt and secrets, and until they purge themselves of them, the secrets will cover their faces, their true identity, in a metaphorical black veil. This black veil could control the lives of people and the actions made by those who are fostering guilt over something that they have said or done. By reading "The Minister's Black Veil," it becomes inherently apparent that Hawthorne pulled from several of his own morals and philosophies to mold his characters as well as general themes of his writings.
ReplyDelete~Shayna S.
Oh my good golly gosh... this is so uterly fetch.
DeleteHawthorne uses Mr. Hooper in The Minister's Black Veil to unveil the evils of society by creating a controversial character who ends up a victim of brutal society in order to display the impurities in people. Mr. Hooper wears the black veil hoping for people's inner compassion to come out but instead is shunned and not accepted as who he was prior to the veil. He is a symbol of secret sins and ironically is pulling them out of others, showing their incapacity for compassion. As he is sat in his bed, death encompassing his soul, Mr. Hooper revealed to the people the horror that lay within them. He proclaimed to the people in his company "Tremble also at each other! Have men avoided me and women show no pity,...I look around me, and lo! on over visage a Black Veil!" (Hawthorne 625). When Mr. Hooper began to wear the black veil he began to be treated differently and although people knew that it was only a veil, one that a women might wear on her hat, they judged him and shivered at the sight of it. An old lady even said "He has changed himself into something awful, only by hiding his face" (Hawthorne 618). Judged he was by his veil and no sympathy was giving to Mr. Hooper, just a different persona. The unveiling of the sins of the citizens at the end of the book classifies this story as a Classical Romance due to it's intertwining plots and symbolism. The ministers sin of keeping the black veil over his face and being disapproved in the eyes of the citizens, frightening them revealed the true sinners whom were the citizens themselves for not extending their graciousness to him and not embracing the minister and his veil. Through the use of symbolism and intricate intertwining of the plot Hawthorne was able to encompass the true purpose behind the story displaying that everyone is capable of sins.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading “The Minister’s Black Veil” and “The Birthmark,” I am struck by Hawthorne’s seemingly inescapable obsession with being publicly marked by something out of the person’s control, which has a negative impact on them until their death. In the “Veil”, the pastor is forced to wear a creepy looking black veil every moment until he dies. In “Birthmark,” the beautiful young wife has a hideous birthmark that mars her beauty. In both situations, this publicly viewed feature interferes with their ability to be loved. The pastor’s love leaves him because she is repulsed by the veil, and the young woman’s husband can’t love her because of the hand-like, red birthmark. In the “Veil”, there is a very clear line about the interference caused by the veil: “All through life that piece of crape had hung between him and the world: it had separated him from cheerful brotherhood and woman’s love, and kept him in that saddest of prisons, his own heart.” Both the veil and the birthmark are mysterious and have supernatural connections, as fitting the Romantic movement. The veil was just always there and the wind wouldn’t even blow it away from his face, and the birthmark was connected to whatever it was that kept Georgiana alive. Both were seemingly normal things that had a frightening supernatural element to them. These were dark elements that got the imagination flowing, and stood out in contrast to reason. It seems to be his statement on sin, and the impact on one’s life when these sins are out in the open. I can’t help but think that Hawthorne felt forever scarred by his connection to the only Judge in the Salem witchcraft trials who never repented of his actions (his grandfather, John Hathorne). Hawthorn was so ashamed and embarrassed by his grandfather that he added the ‘w’ to his name to distance himself. Based on these two stories, I would say that he felt so marked by this shameful connection of his grandfather, and he believed in a spiritual connection to the sin that couldn’t be taken away, and would be present until his death.
ReplyDeleteJosh T
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Delete-Bill Cosby
In Nathaniel Hawthorne’s “The Minister’s Black Veil” there are many secrets, many dark areas, both literal and metaphorical. These aspects are not centered just on the minister himself, but on all the people in the quiet town. This shows greatest when Hooper is close to death. He tells the people of the town that they all wear black veils and hide behind them. This shows the dark theme behind most of Hawthorne's stories. He is trying to show that people sin, and that they do their best to hide behind their sins by lying about them. The irony of this is lying is a sin. The theme of a characters regret is common in most of Hawthorne's writing. This also shows in the Hawthorne's the story "The Birthmark" the main character is trying to get rid of his wife's birthmark. He sees it as a defect, but really it is what makes her what she is. The main character regrets not taking his wife for what she was after she dies.
ReplyDeleteTroy T
In both of Hawthorne's stories, he depicts how something out of the ordinary attracts the attention of so many, and in a negative way. For Mr. Hooper, it is the veil and for the woman it is the birthmark. The view of these characters by the public changes drastically with the introduction of the veil and the birthmark in both stories. The community cannot accept how someone so lovable or beautiful could be flawed in such a way, which causes loathing. In "The Minister's Black Veil", the veil clearly represents sin. The perception of Mr. Hooper by the populace drastically changes with the introduction of the veil. In the end, when Hooper is on his deathbed, he explains how everyone in a sense in wearing a veil. Everyone has sinned, yet one who is known to have sinned is shunned.
ReplyDeleteAdam B
In both "The Minister's Black Veil" and in "The Birthmark" there is a strong presence of symbolism. In these two stories the symbols are the veil and the birthmark themselves, which both represent concealment, though in different ways. In "The Minister's Black Veil" Mr. Hooper states during the girl's funeral that "he prayed that they, and himself, and all of mortal race, might be ready, as he trusted this young maiden had been, for the dreadful hour that should snatch the veil from their faces" (620). The veil that he speaks of here is metaphorical and represents the concealment of sins from the rest of the world and even from God. He says that "all of mortal race" lives under this veil because everyone has some deep, dark secret that they would never want exposed to others. The black veil worn by Mr. Hooper is a literal and physical representation of Mr. Hooper's metaphorical veil. In "The Birthmark" there is a similar theme of concealment presented through the symbol of Georgiana's birthmark. After their marriage, Aylmer becomes obsessed with his wife's birthmark, seeing it as her only "visible mark of earthly imperfection" (632). He begins to see only this imperfection which blinds him to who his wife really is, thereby concealing the true Georgiana from him. The birthmark, like the veil, is the physical representation of this metaphorical concealment.
ReplyDeleteKatie C
In the "Birthmark," Hawthorne explains the importance of human flaws. When Georgiana drinks the potion that was to get rid of her birthmark, the "the last crimson tint of the birthmark - the sole of human imperfection - faded from her cheek, and the parting breath of the now perfect woman passed into the atmosphere (641)." In this story, it can be noted that Georgiana was perfect in every possible way exempt for the tiny birthmark that was deeply engraved in her cheek. The small birthmark, in the shape of a hand, was Georgiana's one flaw, and is what essentially made her human. Through Georgiana's one flaw, Hawthorne makes it every clear that in order to be human, it is necessary to have flaws, or else the mortality of the human race would be perceived differently. In this way, humans would be considered immortal Gods, and since Georgiana was not a God, it explained why Hawthorne felt the need to let Georgiana pass away once she had attained flawlessness. Quintessentially, Hawthorne uses Georgina as a symbol to say that imperfection is just a part of humanity; a perfect human cannot coexist in a flawed society which is why Georgiana's spirit goes up to heaven and leaves her body at the end.
ReplyDeleteGayatri Kasi
Saminaminaehehwakawakaeheh!!!!!!!!
DeleteI really love your analysis, Gayatri! And I have to agree on what you said with well - everything. The way your stated that a "a perfect human cannot coexist in a flawed society" was perfectly put because I feel as though this story is an exaggeration of what todays society is like. Throughout our entire lives we are put into situations where there are two groups coexisting the "we" and the "they." Once the "they" group is singled out and ostracized the others who are considered part of the norm have easy living and feel superior to people who may not be as "perfect" or "normal" as everyone else. In this story, she was the epitome of perfect beside her birthmark, and no matter how they tried to "fix" the problem at hand, it would ultimately result in her death - all because she was different. I feel like Hawthorne really tries to incorporate a life lesson as a motif throughout the story to represent the decline in humanity and how we look onto others - acceptance is a virtue that not all of the human race has. Once we look to someone as different, a line is drawn where we socially and morally separate ourselves from them, just like what happened to Georgina, ultimately causing her own demise.
DeleteIn "The Birthmark" Hawthorne tries to portray his views on beauty and how he thinks that people unfairly criticize others based on appearance. He tries to show how inhumane it is to make someone go through what Georgiana did just for a slight change in her physical appearance. It was unnecessary for Aylmer to make his wife go through that just to end up dying. It was extremely selfish and a terrible thing for Aylmer to do. In "The Minister's Black Veil" Mr. Hooper wears the veil to represent his sin or sins that he has committed. It represents that everyone sins at some point and no one is perfect and that everyone should be faced with that reality. He feels that it is necessary to make it be known that he has sinned and wants others to be able to reach inside themselves and admit that they have sinned too.
ReplyDeleteIan S.
I want quotations !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! plzzzzzzzzzz
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